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Jun. 16th, 2003 02:06 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dewinged10:37 AM-
Yawn, Monday. Trying not to stress. Feeling that way lately, andf slightly paranoid as well, and not in a good way. Usually, I think a little wariness is healthy since it means I'm not oblivious. But, it's not the good kind.
But, in any case, I'm leaving this in my MUSHer friends list, so as not to spam the people who aren't interested.
And even so, I'm putting it behind an LJ cut because this is a pretty long speech.
One thing I did consider, as I was trying to put myself to sleep last night, was the concept of a MUSH based off the Mutants and Masterminds d20 game. Superheroes. D20. Now, I have the book, and once I read through it about seven or eight times, most of it makes sense to me now. Superhero systems are tough in general, considering the levels of power one deals with on a general basis, and to try and quantify it where it is balanced. Ugh. :) This system doesn't do too badly, considering it takes everything involved in the average superhero universe into account (aliens, super-tech, andriods, mystics...as opposed to just a straight mutation/single origin source such as Aberrant.)
So, through the grapevine, I heard people were considering a M&M (Mutants and Masterminds) MUSH. And as is my thing, since I've been wanting one, it had my thoughts running. How would it work? How would it all be arranged.
Things I've been noting to myself: M&M is a system. There's no set setting, like Aberrant had. Aberrant is a system all it's own, but it comes with its own setting/world/storyline. So, by just using the system, it leaves a lot open.
1) It could be Original Characters only. And you know, I like this idea. Start them off all on equal footing with no bias in favor of the Feature characters, which allows for people to flex their creative muscles and see what can be created. And no one feels left out.
2) No messy continuity. With MUShes that are based on the canon of an established comic universe, there are usually aspects that make people leery of dealing with them. (i.e. the whole Onslaught thing in Marvel, and most everything that happened after it. Dc's mega-crossovers, Crisis, Zero Hour, and what they did to Donna Troy alone...) An original setting would remove this, done right.
But, there are some problems or potential pitfalls inherent in this:
1) Unwantable world. Sure, it could be an M&M MUSH with an original setting, but it could turn out to be something undesirable for players to get involved in, or the basis for powers/worldview could be established in such a way as to handicap a lot of hero/villain concepts right out of the gate. I can juse see it: I wait months and months, and the setting turns out to take place in 1978 after WW3 just occurred. Leisure Suit Apocalypse.
2) City issues. Say it takes place in one city. Now, years and years of comic reading establish this city as New York. It's fast, easily researched, and cosmopolitan enough to allow people from all walks of life without seeming out of place. But, New York is pretty much the superhero 'standard,' and the powers that be might try something different. Now, different is fine, within reason. Say, a MUSH set in Los Angeles/Southern Cali makes a little sense as opposed to a place say, set in Oslo, Norway. Nothing against Norway at all, but the average MUSHer wouldn't know much about the city, which might throw people off.
3) Lack of continuity/history. The downside of the no messy continuity is the lack of one at all. A lot of what makes some comic books work for me is the history they draw from. Drawing from the history to create something new or cause-and-effect-ish makes it seem more real to me, in some ways. If this MUSH uses the day of its opening as it's Day 1, and no history happened before that, that can be good and bad. There would be little to work from, and there's no way a new hero could learn from a retired/established hero, or even be a 'legacy' of one. (My ideal OC for a M&M setting is the child of a mystic who was a costumed hero killed years ago by unknown forces.)
4) MUSH issues. Superhero MUSHes are very trait-intensive. Some people have had issues, saying they need to be a novelist to have a character on a superhero place. (Of course, there are players who like that sort of thing, myself and![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
watermoon to name two.) And building a character in M&M, especially when I've never played the system 'live' (i.e. in tabletop, or on a MUSH in real-time, ect.) Now, the whole idea behind the attraction for M&M is that it's a System. There are stats, there are limits, there is some attempt at balance. So, the effort is into writing the background and setting up the stats so you don't over-spend. If I have to add novel-sized traits on /top/ of this, I will lose a lot of my drive, real fast. The point of the stats is that traits aren't needed.
(Note: Brave and the Bold uses the DCU RPG stat system, but it's more of a quick-reference guideline. I've only seen the system used IC once. Ever. There is no 'point limit' on BNB, just set what you think the stats are, and Staff tries to make sure it's not overboard.)
5) Red-lining: Sorry. As much as I like the M&M system, there was ways to break it with a starting (PL 10) character. The right combination can make someone who is basically unstoppable, even at PL 10. I want assurance Staff would not allow PCS like that on the grid, since it would make most other PCs pointless. (Note, if they do want to see it, I can find a link to one such broken little thing.)
But, there is an alternative, which is using the other M&M book that's currently out. The Freedom City sourcebook. This is a detailed game world for the M&M system, with a history that's set, tons of important FCs, and multiple venues/sub-genres to play in using any aspect you want. It's...self-admittedly influenced by the DC and Marvel universes, which I think the book is an homage to. Some of the people and places are clearly named after well-known comics names (Example: Adrian Eldritch, the heep big mystic on the Freedom City planet, lives in a house on Ditko street, or one can visit the Kirby Museum of Fine art.) The writers are very unabashed in their references, and there is a thread on the Green Ronin website that accounts for all the references/allusions. But I forgot where it is, so I can't post it.
Now, this has its own upsides and downsides as well.
1) Established world. There's a history here, craploads of plot hooks, different directions you can take your character (one group of heroes is based off Generation X/New Mutants/Teen Titans, another hero is currently hunting vampires, while another FC is a vigilante against the Mafia.) So there's, in my mind, little limit on where your origin can come from. It's not just mutants, or just the Wild Card virus or the M-R Node. With the world set as it is, it gives the players a lot of leeway within the limits.
2) The characters. I love the characters in this book. I would rather read about them than some of the popular character in 'real' comics now. Heck, one family of heroes is a blatant cross between the Fantastic Four, CHallengers of the Unknown, and Power Pack. And, any PC I make must, must, MUST take on Doc Otaku at some point. It's just too cool. Heck, my PC would shoot for the Next Gen so fast.
That's the happy part of it. There are some wicked downsides to this.
1) Feature Character Bias. Someone playing a character from the book will get more attention/story than someone playing a PC they made up. It's the same on any MUSH where there are Features and Original Characters. Hell, on one MUSH I play a Feature Character (from the comics, I mean), and since he's not one of the 'big name' characters, I still get ignored/treated like garbage/third class human being. It doesn't make it fun at all, and it's killing me because I put so much work into it.
2) Vague information. Okay, the sourcebook has a whole crapload of info. But it's far, far from complete. Not every character is statted, and some powers are only hinted at. What can be interpreted from the book could easily be pushed to make someone ungodly powerful. Or even so, some of the FCs are made to take on teams of heroes, which means their PL is hideous, and some of the power combos even more so. Also, for a detailed enough BG on some of the minor FCs, it could be tricky with the lack of detail that one gets from a comic book.
3) Copyrights. Ever see any 3rd Ed D&D MUSHes that aren't an original setting, as opposed to the Realms or even *twitch* Greyhawk? It's possible if a Freedom City MUSH existed, Green Ronin would come down HARD and have it dismantled, for copyright laws. (I wish I could speak to them of it, and explain the lack of superhero tabletop games in my area. I'm in one Champions game, and it blows.)
4) Variations...this is what scares me the most. I'll hear of a Freedom City MUSH, and I'll get all excited (and use the excited energy to write out a full app for that OC I want to play), but when I get there it will be a Variant Freedom. This involves changes. Examples are:
a) No stats. "Oh it's Mutants and Masterminds, but we're not using the d20 system that is the whole point. Start writing those +traits." I visited an Aberrant MUSH like this, which made it frustrating to say the least.
b) No Chargen control. "So U want tp play a heero with mad 5ki11z!? Kewl!" Oh, God, please let this be not the case. I highly doubt it, considering my sources for info, but I really do hope some Quality Control goes into just who the heck they unleash on the grid.
c) Altered world. "Oh, the city has the same name, but the NPCs from the book don't exist/have all been killed/are all using the Villain Option/exist but you won't be interacting with them. The store and street names are all different, but it's still Freedom City." No, no it isn't. Should it be a Freedom City place, please know that we the players expect it to be just that. If it's not broken, do not try and fix it.
d) Scraps. "Welcome to the grand opening of Freedom City MUSH! We just opened today. App whoever you want, but note that all the FCs and team spots are already filled and we've restricted half the powers already." I do hope it doesn't end like this. I really do. Now, I usually play OCs (more flexibility), but I would like the opportunity to be open for an FC. Mostly because I could type blindfolded and still play Johnny Rocket. :)
It's about 1:45 PM now. This has kept me occupied nicely. I just wish I could get the message out to whoever needs to hear it. I know I am often picky, but I wonder if, as MUSHer's, we should be. To a point, I expect, because we have a right to do as we wish, within acceptible limits. I just...I dunno. I like the sourcebook enough that I actually want to play a RPG in a published setting, for once. And I work within the limits of the gamers I know RL, which is why I'm looking online. It's that need to have everything...just right, or just close enough to be acceptible.
Okay, closing this down. Almost lunchtime, when I can post this.
Yawn, Monday. Trying not to stress. Feeling that way lately, andf slightly paranoid as well, and not in a good way. Usually, I think a little wariness is healthy since it means I'm not oblivious. But, it's not the good kind.
But, in any case, I'm leaving this in my MUSHer friends list, so as not to spam the people who aren't interested.
And even so, I'm putting it behind an LJ cut because this is a pretty long speech.
One thing I did consider, as I was trying to put myself to sleep last night, was the concept of a MUSH based off the Mutants and Masterminds d20 game. Superheroes. D20. Now, I have the book, and once I read through it about seven or eight times, most of it makes sense to me now. Superhero systems are tough in general, considering the levels of power one deals with on a general basis, and to try and quantify it where it is balanced. Ugh. :) This system doesn't do too badly, considering it takes everything involved in the average superhero universe into account (aliens, super-tech, andriods, mystics...as opposed to just a straight mutation/single origin source such as Aberrant.)
So, through the grapevine, I heard people were considering a M&M (Mutants and Masterminds) MUSH. And as is my thing, since I've been wanting one, it had my thoughts running. How would it work? How would it all be arranged.
Things I've been noting to myself: M&M is a system. There's no set setting, like Aberrant had. Aberrant is a system all it's own, but it comes with its own setting/world/storyline. So, by just using the system, it leaves a lot open.
1) It could be Original Characters only. And you know, I like this idea. Start them off all on equal footing with no bias in favor of the Feature characters, which allows for people to flex their creative muscles and see what can be created. And no one feels left out.
2) No messy continuity. With MUShes that are based on the canon of an established comic universe, there are usually aspects that make people leery of dealing with them. (i.e. the whole Onslaught thing in Marvel, and most everything that happened after it. Dc's mega-crossovers, Crisis, Zero Hour, and what they did to Donna Troy alone...) An original setting would remove this, done right.
But, there are some problems or potential pitfalls inherent in this:
1) Unwantable world. Sure, it could be an M&M MUSH with an original setting, but it could turn out to be something undesirable for players to get involved in, or the basis for powers/worldview could be established in such a way as to handicap a lot of hero/villain concepts right out of the gate. I can juse see it: I wait months and months, and the setting turns out to take place in 1978 after WW3 just occurred. Leisure Suit Apocalypse.
2) City issues. Say it takes place in one city. Now, years and years of comic reading establish this city as New York. It's fast, easily researched, and cosmopolitan enough to allow people from all walks of life without seeming out of place. But, New York is pretty much the superhero 'standard,' and the powers that be might try something different. Now, different is fine, within reason. Say, a MUSH set in Los Angeles/Southern Cali makes a little sense as opposed to a place say, set in Oslo, Norway. Nothing against Norway at all, but the average MUSHer wouldn't know much about the city, which might throw people off.
3) Lack of continuity/history. The downside of the no messy continuity is the lack of one at all. A lot of what makes some comic books work for me is the history they draw from. Drawing from the history to create something new or cause-and-effect-ish makes it seem more real to me, in some ways. If this MUSH uses the day of its opening as it's Day 1, and no history happened before that, that can be good and bad. There would be little to work from, and there's no way a new hero could learn from a retired/established hero, or even be a 'legacy' of one. (My ideal OC for a M&M setting is the child of a mystic who was a costumed hero killed years ago by unknown forces.)
4) MUSH issues. Superhero MUSHes are very trait-intensive. Some people have had issues, saying they need to be a novelist to have a character on a superhero place. (Of course, there are players who like that sort of thing, myself and
watermoon to name two.) And building a character in M&M, especially when I've never played the system 'live' (i.e. in tabletop, or on a MUSH in real-time, ect.) Now, the whole idea behind the attraction for M&M is that it's a System. There are stats, there are limits, there is some attempt at balance. So, the effort is into writing the background and setting up the stats so you don't over-spend. If I have to add novel-sized traits on /top/ of this, I will lose a lot of my drive, real fast. The point of the stats is that traits aren't needed.(Note: Brave and the Bold uses the DCU RPG stat system, but it's more of a quick-reference guideline. I've only seen the system used IC once. Ever. There is no 'point limit' on BNB, just set what you think the stats are, and Staff tries to make sure it's not overboard.)
5) Red-lining: Sorry. As much as I like the M&M system, there was ways to break it with a starting (PL 10) character. The right combination can make someone who is basically unstoppable, even at PL 10. I want assurance Staff would not allow PCS like that on the grid, since it would make most other PCs pointless. (Note, if they do want to see it, I can find a link to one such broken little thing.)
But, there is an alternative, which is using the other M&M book that's currently out. The Freedom City sourcebook. This is a detailed game world for the M&M system, with a history that's set, tons of important FCs, and multiple venues/sub-genres to play in using any aspect you want. It's...self-admittedly influenced by the DC and Marvel universes, which I think the book is an homage to. Some of the people and places are clearly named after well-known comics names (Example: Adrian Eldritch, the heep big mystic on the Freedom City planet, lives in a house on Ditko street, or one can visit the Kirby Museum of Fine art.) The writers are very unabashed in their references, and there is a thread on the Green Ronin website that accounts for all the references/allusions. But I forgot where it is, so I can't post it.
Now, this has its own upsides and downsides as well.
1) Established world. There's a history here, craploads of plot hooks, different directions you can take your character (one group of heroes is based off Generation X/New Mutants/Teen Titans, another hero is currently hunting vampires, while another FC is a vigilante against the Mafia.) So there's, in my mind, little limit on where your origin can come from. It's not just mutants, or just the Wild Card virus or the M-R Node. With the world set as it is, it gives the players a lot of leeway within the limits.
2) The characters. I love the characters in this book. I would rather read about them than some of the popular character in 'real' comics now. Heck, one family of heroes is a blatant cross between the Fantastic Four, CHallengers of the Unknown, and Power Pack. And, any PC I make must, must, MUST take on Doc Otaku at some point. It's just too cool. Heck, my PC would shoot for the Next Gen so fast.
That's the happy part of it. There are some wicked downsides to this.
1) Feature Character Bias. Someone playing a character from the book will get more attention/story than someone playing a PC they made up. It's the same on any MUSH where there are Features and Original Characters. Hell, on one MUSH I play a Feature Character (from the comics, I mean), and since he's not one of the 'big name' characters, I still get ignored/treated like garbage/third class human being. It doesn't make it fun at all, and it's killing me because I put so much work into it.
2) Vague information. Okay, the sourcebook has a whole crapload of info. But it's far, far from complete. Not every character is statted, and some powers are only hinted at. What can be interpreted from the book could easily be pushed to make someone ungodly powerful. Or even so, some of the FCs are made to take on teams of heroes, which means their PL is hideous, and some of the power combos even more so. Also, for a detailed enough BG on some of the minor FCs, it could be tricky with the lack of detail that one gets from a comic book.
3) Copyrights. Ever see any 3rd Ed D&D MUSHes that aren't an original setting, as opposed to the Realms or even *twitch* Greyhawk? It's possible if a Freedom City MUSH existed, Green Ronin would come down HARD and have it dismantled, for copyright laws. (I wish I could speak to them of it, and explain the lack of superhero tabletop games in my area. I'm in one Champions game, and it blows.)
4) Variations...this is what scares me the most. I'll hear of a Freedom City MUSH, and I'll get all excited (and use the excited energy to write out a full app for that OC I want to play), but when I get there it will be a Variant Freedom. This involves changes. Examples are:
a) No stats. "Oh it's Mutants and Masterminds, but we're not using the d20 system that is the whole point. Start writing those +traits." I visited an Aberrant MUSH like this, which made it frustrating to say the least.
b) No Chargen control. "So U want tp play a heero with mad 5ki11z!? Kewl!" Oh, God, please let this be not the case. I highly doubt it, considering my sources for info, but I really do hope some Quality Control goes into just who the heck they unleash on the grid.
c) Altered world. "Oh, the city has the same name, but the NPCs from the book don't exist/have all been killed/are all using the Villain Option/exist but you won't be interacting with them. The store and street names are all different, but it's still Freedom City." No, no it isn't. Should it be a Freedom City place, please know that we the players expect it to be just that. If it's not broken, do not try and fix it.
d) Scraps. "Welcome to the grand opening of Freedom City MUSH! We just opened today. App whoever you want, but note that all the FCs and team spots are already filled and we've restricted half the powers already." I do hope it doesn't end like this. I really do. Now, I usually play OCs (more flexibility), but I would like the opportunity to be open for an FC. Mostly because I could type blindfolded and still play Johnny Rocket. :)
It's about 1:45 PM now. This has kept me occupied nicely. I just wish I could get the message out to whoever needs to hear it. I know I am often picky, but I wonder if, as MUSHer's, we should be. To a point, I expect, because we have a right to do as we wish, within acceptible limits. I just...I dunno. I like the sourcebook enough that I actually want to play a RPG in a published setting, for once. And I work within the limits of the gamers I know RL, which is why I'm looking online. It's that need to have everything...just right, or just close enough to be acceptible.
Okay, closing this down. Almost lunchtime, when I can post this.